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You might remember that earlier this year, we attended a local ‘Bringing Back 6th Edition’ Warhammer tournament; a short while after the event we spoke to Joseph Bain, the tournament organiser, about the rewards and pitfalls of setting up your first tournament.
Our love of Warhammer has been prevalent since we were introduced to 2nd Edition, and recently we’ve found ourselves dipping back in and out of the fantasy world with various projects; so much so that we wanted to revisit our recording with Joseph Bain and share the conversation with you because it was exciting to see a Warhammer tournament spring up so close to home, and of course talk about the game itself. The many tournaments we’ve been to over the years, both organised officially and privately, have been fun, engaging, competitive and a great place to make new friends. So how did ‘Bringing Back 6th Edition’ fare and what is it about the Warhammer world we love?
RG: For us, it was a really cool event. The turnout was great and you seemed to enjoy yourself.
JB: Yeah I did enjoy myself even though I was exhausted by the end of it! So much had happened between setting up the night before and actually getting started. I had a bad night’s sleep thinking about everything that could go wrong. It was only when I was driving home having just met you guys that I was suddenly thinking, if anything happens to me in these next few hours, there are so many people who are going to be annoyed! I was making up such vivid scenarios and I did think, what if a car crashes into me right now! But then that’s what happened to one of the guys coming! A car crashed into his house at like 4am!
RG: Can you believe that?!
JB: I’d checked my phone at 5am in the morning and someone else had messaged me saying “Oh, I’m really sorry, I’ve been painting since 2:30am and I haven’t left enough time to finish painting”. I said just come along, you won’t win the best painted army, but there’s no way I’m playing in this tournament because I need to run it! Playing wasn't on my agenda. He came along, but then obviously the other guy couldn’t, so I had to play anyway…
RG: It must have been stressful enough organising the tournament without the added stress of having to play at the same time!
JB: I’m so glad we set up most of the stuff the night before because that just took a lot of the pressure off, especially because so many people turned up before the arrival time. We were there at 8:20am and people started arriving 10 minutes later…
RG: So, what’s your earliest memory of Warhammer?
JB: My earliest memory of playing Warhammer was when I was 12 years old. Two of my friends had an Empire and an Orc army, they had bought the boxset together and came round to my house to set everything up.
RG: That would have been 6th Edition…
JB: Yes! That was my first edition and I joined in with playing the Orcs trying to reach the Empire’s gun line! It was a really fun game, and I liked the way it was asymmetrical. I liked the way it was fair because of the points system, but everything had different abilities and you had to learn the stats of your troops and work everything out. After that, I joined in going to various events at the Games Workshop in Canterbury. They’d do half term events, just a hero and a few troops, and you’d join in with a group of people. I did that for a while, and then my friend who had the Empire army was moving on and leaving home so decided to sell his troops. I bought them for £50, which seemed a lot but I knew it was well worth it and he’d paid out far more than I had. He’d also painted a significant number of them really well too, and that was the one thing I knew I was really bad at. Actually, the fact I’d never painted from an early age has really haunted me because people see this Empire army and think I’m an ‘alright painter’, but I’m really not! I’m very slowly becoming more confident with my painting though.
RG: When you saw that original box game, did you think that the hobby was as vast as it was?
JB: Well, I’d seen Games Workshop and miniatures before, but I’d never played the game. I’d never been into one of the stores either, I’d only ever looked through the window and thought “What’s going on in there?”. I was younger than 12 when I saw a Games Workshop for the first time, and I never thought it was for me because the people I always saw in there were a lot older, with the youngest being about 16 and most of them were really big!
RG: So you thought it was an adults game?
JB: It just seemed like a big mystery. There didn’t seem to be a way of figuring out exactly what was going on. It wasn’t easy to access the internet back then, and so you couldn’t get hold of any easy-to-look-at material.
RG: It was all word of mouth. I remember the first time I encountered any kind of Citadel miniature, actually it was Ral Partha miniatures from way back when. The first time I’d ever seen an image of a miniature was on a combat card. Do you remember those? There’s been two or three versions of them, but they’re like Top Trumps really except with Warhammer. I must have been 7 or 8 when I first saw those, and I remember thinking they were really cool. A year or two after that, when I was getting on for about 10, I saw a Games Workshop, went in and fell in love. For me, when I first opened my first boxset, it was all about how the figures looked, “Why are they grey? Oh mum, I need a paint set too!” [laughs]. The guy who served us in the Hammersmith GW, the very original one before it closed, had long hair, a black shirt with chains on, tattoos all up his arms and big rings on his fingers, it was kinda scary but really cool. Bridging that gap between this ‘thing’ being some cool looking miniatures, to being a whole world of hobby games was an incredible journey. Can you relate to that at all?
JB: As I said, I was initially put off of going into GW because of all the older guys there. I was just a kid who didn’t know very much. There was a guy who played Chaos who had the long hair and the tattoos, but also long black painted fingernails, and I’d never interacted with anyone like that before. It was intimidating. That’s why I think my first actual game was with my friends at home. As soon as I got hold of a rulebook I felt like I had a bit more power. One of the things I enjoyed about the game was the fact that it was absolutely horrible and surprising the first time Night Goblin Fanatics popped out and killed all of my Knights and I hadn’t realised I’d some something really stupid! But it was the end of an era, so to speak, as 6th Edition finished as I left for university. I tried to pick it up again, but changes had been made, and I didn’t feel as keen anymore with everything else going on. Everything ground to a halt.
RG: Why do you think the game has stayed with you then?
JB: I think part of it is the one-to-one models. You can build an army which still feels like an army but with each unit there are still individual miniatures. There’s an identity to everything.
RG: Years ago, me and about 8 guys had this campaign idea where games of 40K, Inquisitor, Epic and Necromunda were built into the same story and narrative. The idea was that there are all of these systems in this universe for a reason, it all fits together. And this is what I thought of when you mentioned identity, it’s the idea of building a narrative for your army.
JB: I definitely caught on to the attachment that people have to their models very early on, and it became more obvious to me with the painting. How many hours you spent painting lends itself to how attached you become, so when they eventually fall in battle you feel that wrench. When they moved to larger scale battles with 8th edition, I feel like you lost that feeling a bit.
RG: At what point in all of this experience did you become involved with the gaming group in Canterbury?
JB: So, Canterbury Crusaders is the gaming group I’m part of there and I knew some of the gamers already because that’s where I grew up. I became involved with them as I’d started playing Lord of the Rings which was one of those classic things where I was just getting into 6th Edition and the LOTR movies hit the big screen; I’d read the books so I was already in love and then GW got the franchise. I thought, ‘Wow this is incredible’, but I didn’t like the initial game and the miniatures were more expensive than the fantasy miniatures so I stayed away from it for a while!
RG: There’s actually a story behind those miniatures. I worked at GW for about 10 years and it was during a long period at the end of 6th Edition falling off, through 7th and 8th. It was fed down by memo from Head Office that LOTR was happening but it was all very hush hush. They had access to a lot of movie stills and a stockpile of material, and they’d been working on the miniatures for over a year before they even spoke to anybody about it. During the process, each miniature was proofed and sent off to the actor is person; they had to give the green light. Every single one of them said yup cool, that looks like me. The only one who sent it back was Liv Tyler, and according to rumours she didn’t do it just once, she did it three times.
JB: She was incredible in that film, I fell in love with her character the first time I watched it. I was put off by the prices and the first play test of the game, and because I was into 6th Edition fantasy at the time I was really taking off on that journey, but then I realised I didn’t know anyone who played the game. I had all of these miniatures I’d picked up and through Facebook found some people who played this version of the game. One was actually a friend from Canterbury when I was about 12 who still played Warhammer, but he also played LOTR. His club, which happened to be Canterbury Crusaders, put on a tournament which I went to and enjoyed. This also started to put the idea in my mind that I could do my own tournament. I’d be able to give people name badges!
RG: We loved that touch with your tournament. It was nice to give people a memento.
JB: I thought to myself, how hard could it be? I gave it some serious consideration and spoke to my gaming partner to tell him I wouldn’t be playing LOTR for a while and instead would be pushing Warhammer because that’s where my true love lies. I’d started putting out feelers and had an enthusiastic response. I told the Canterbury Crusaders I would be doing a 6th Edition tournament and they were keen too. I said I’d come down to play with them and it just so happens the people who showed up to play were the people I’d played with when I was a kid! Now we’re all looking older and greyer, but I was like ‘Hey it’s you!’. We started to recount tales about what army we used and it was all a bit weird because we hadn’t seen each other for such a long time.
RG: We’ve had the same thing happen at various conventions. It’s nice to reconnect, and no matter how much time passes, people still play the game and have enthusiasm for older editions. A big pull for us was the painting. One gamer, much older, who had been playing for years, was someone I’d talk to when I was a youngster at Games Workshop in the early days. I remember being amazed by his technique and would always quiz him about it, I really looked up to him for his skill and experience. I was hungry to learn more from him, and others, at the time. Many years later, I met this guy by chance and we shared a look of recognition. Once I told him about the army he had, the penny dropped and we were talking as if no time has passed, certainly not 15 years…
JB: That’s why I’m thankful for meeting the people I did at gaming events. I was worried if I’d met them in the street and started talking about a Wood Elf army, they’d be dismissive and say they don’t do that anymore and then I’d have to walk away embarrassed.
RG: With your experience, and talking about the community side of things, do you find that there are still new people discovering the game or do you find it’s the same names and faces from years before?
JB: The forums (on Facebook) are varied; I’m on LOTR, Middlehammer and Warhammer 6th Edition Fantasy; I’m on 8th Edition too but just to keep up with it. The one I’ve seen more new people on is Lord of the Rings, I think the fact it still exists as a game, and the new Hobbit films have helped.
RG: So, it’s been kept fresh and buoyant by different revival periods?
JB: Well, yeah, and the fact that it’s voted Britain’s best book by people across the nation a significant amount of time. It’s something people are always going to keep coming back to and discovering.
RG: I suppose like many big franchises, it’s always going to have that pull.
JB: It’s helped people join the miniature scene as a result. At the school where I teach, I’ve started a club for board games and miniature war games where we play newer games like Age of Sigmar and Kill Team. The kids get involved and are really into them, they can start small and build up to larger 40K armies. For a lot of them, that’s their dream.
RG: It’s almost like you’re the bearer of hallowed ancient knowledge.
JB: Certainly with 6th Edition [laughs]. Another thing I’ve noticed as a gateway into gaming is actually the Star Wars miniature game. People who I thought would never go near board games, let alone miniature games, have said to me, ‘Do you play X-Wing?’
RG: That’s a good indication of the power decent imagery and a good marketing strategy can have to change someone’s opinion.
RG: How did you deal with the overwhelming response to the ‘Bringing Back 6th Edition’ Warhammer tournament, were you expecting it?
JB: I didn’t expect it at all. I thought I’d get a few people saying, ‘Oh yeah I’m in London, let’s meet for a game’. But instead I was blown away with a cross-country response, people travelled from the likes of York, Birmingham and the Middle of Wales.
RG: If I knew enough people were going to a particular place, I would make the effort no matter how far away it was.
JB: The next hurdle was, despite time, sourcing the resources. I had the people interested but now I had to give them something! I was fortunate that I was able to borrow scenery from the Canterbury Crusaders, they were so accommodating and even came to play on the day!
RG: This also reinforces the community idea too doesn’t it? It’s great they supported you.
JB: Yeah, 90% of the scenery was theirs. And it was great because I was able to match armies against different terrains. I had also organised music but because I had to play in the end, it didn’t work out as I’d planned. I had grand visions of mixing in tracks at poignant moments, but alas it didn’t happen. There was a guy who had approached me who was keen to play but asked why I’d capped the event to 20 players and it was because I didn’t have any more resources. He offered his if we opened up the tournament but then he went quiet for a while and I’d already committed to 24 players by this point, including him, so it made me nervous. I had to put in a contingency and arrange a backup, but it worked out in the end. I was also grateful to you for managing to come up with some goods at short notice after an early morning text when I found out about the car crash!
RG: You can’t always account for bad things happening though; that guy must have been devastated but what can he do? But, having experienced this, what you do differently if there was a next time?
JB: Firstly, don’t be the player of last resort in your own tournament like I was. Secondly, have a solid plan for scenery. There’s a tournament organised off the back of mine by someone who attended, which is in October called Marauders Mayhem. What he’s done, and I think this is a good idea, is he’s just said ‘Right, we’re organising it for 20 people, this is the ticket price and we’re going to use some of that money to buy mats and scenery’. It’s about £10 and once he’s set up with this tournament, the next one could be cheaper. Overall, it’s the foresight to plan ahead.
RG: Would you run 6th Edition again and explore it more or would you expand totally and go in a different direction?
JB: Right now, I’d definitely still explore 6th Edition. The tournament was called ‘Bringing Back 6th Edition’ so we’re still bringing it back. It’s an edition that is so rich with themes, and had three campaigns; Dark Shadows, Lustria, Storm of Chaos.
RG: It even had sub themes like Path to Glory and Border Patrol; you had these things that were themed around certain armies, even smaller games like Warhammer Skirmish and Warhammer Siege.
Tags: Warhammer 6th Edition Games Workshop miniatures Bringing Back 6th Edition tournament army tabletop games wargames Warhammer Fantasy Lord of the Rings Star Wars X-Wing Canterbury Crusaders
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